Updated: Oct 5, 2020
Feeds and Sleep: how to milk sleep
In this episode we talk about some of the myths around milk feeds and sleep. We’ll also share the foundations of milk feeds - from newborns to older babies - that will help you get more of what we’re all here for: sleep!
Whether you bottle, breast or combination feed (we’ve done all three), The Sleep Mums are here for you. Our podcast and community are only about support and love. Like a cuppa and a cuddle!
This week, listener Emma asks ‘How do I get my baby to take a bottle?’ and ‘How do I stop her snacking so much?’
Listen up and sleep soon,
Cat and Sarah x
1 – Differences in feeding
2 – How to give a full feed
3 – Feed Timings
4 – Wind (insert fart joke here!)
5 – Baby weight gain and signs
Listener Question: How do I get my baby to take a bottle?
The Sleep Mums Episode 3 – Milk Feeds & Sleep Transcript
Cat: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to The Sleep Mums. This is a baby sleep podcast for parents by parents. I'm Cat Cubie, mom, blogger, broadcaster and semi responsible parent of two. And this is Sarah Carpenter, pediatric sleep consultant and mum.
Sarah: [00:00:17] I've actually just realised I've got baby sick on my shoulder!
Cat: [00:00:20] Now that is a hazard of a job, surely!
Cat: [00:00:24] Together we are The Sleep Mums. It's lovely to have you with us again. And if you want to get in touch with us, you can find us online @thesleepmoms or on our website www.thesleepmums.co.uk. This episode is all about milk and sleep because that's our jam, of course. When I was a new, very tired parent, I had no idea how much baby sleep and milk were linked. I mean, to be honest, if it could spoon each other, they probably would. It's a big deal. But here are five of the most important things you need to know about feeding and sleep for babies.
Cat: [00:01:03] Before we kick things off, I just want to say that Sarah and I have breastfed, bottle fed, and combination fed basically between us, we have fed our babies, as you would hope a parent would do. We're here to give you help, guidance and support about baby sleep. We are absolutely not here to comment on how you feed your baby. It is about what is best for you.
Sarah: [00:01:26] You know, some babies will be breastfed for the first year and beyond and all sleep beautifully. Likewise, some babies will bottle feed from day one and all sleep beautifully and you'll still get your breast and bottle babies that don't sleep at all.
Cat: [00:01:40] That's why we're here. We're here to support you through that. So firstly, let's talk about the different ways of feeding baby and bust some myths about them.
1 – What are the different ways of feeding your baby?
Sarah: [00:01:49] The sort of common myths around breastfeeding, I guess, are that you have to cluster feed, that your milk won't come in immediately and will come in on a certain day and that you need to feed on demand. They are the sort of three things that people always come to me saying is this right, am I doing it right, are these the things I should be doing?
Cat: [00:02:09] I would guess the short answer is no. Milk comes in when your body's ready and your baby gets it in - mine didn't come in for over a week - and feeding on demand is probably more of a choice than a necessity. But let's talk about cluster-feeding, though, because that can be a really big part of breastfeeding journey in the early days and bottle feeding too.
So, what is cluster-feeding?
Sarah: [00:02:33] So first of all, it's recognising what cluster-feeding is and why the baby's doing it. So, often, you know, you'll hear people saying that between five p.m. and 10 p.m., all they've done is and feed their baby. So if you actually read your baby's cues and look at what your baby is really looking for quite often during this period of the evening, they're actually overtired. So, yes, they're sucking but they're sucking for comfort, they're sucking to try and get themselves off to sleep because they're so overtired, they're not doing it for any nutritional value. So it's important that you can either pass baby on to someone else to get them to settle them, and if you can't then really persevere through and set yourself some timers or so that you're not just popping them back on the breast or bottle every 20 minutes. If you're cluster feeding, then you'd exhausted. You're not getting a break. You feel completely touched out, but also because the baby's latch isn't necessarily going to be a great latch because they're not feeding properly. They are then getting excess wind during this period of time. So, rather than actually offering your baby comfort, you can then end up with an uncomfortable, overtired, windy, frustrated, grumpy baby and a very tired, frustrated mum or dad.
Cat: [00:03:54] You know it's, as you say, it's about reading the signs. And what's really, really difficult as a new parent is reading those signs because tired signs look really similar to hungry signs.
Sarah: [00:04:05] They absolutely do. Yes, it's really really difficult and a baby will naturally root or suck when they're tired but it doesn't mean that they're hungry.
Cat: [00:04:16] So how did you know?
Sarah: [00:04:19] That's the million dollar question! There's a lot of hungry and tired signs that relate back to cries, appearance and obviously the natural sucking pattern, which will be different to a hungry suck.
Cat: [00:04:37] There's also a bit of a myth which hopefully for parents who are bottle feeding their baby is a bit of a relief to bust: that bottle fed babies sleep better...
Sarah: [00:04:49] I've had over the years, so many clients come to me, saying but, you know, I'm bottle feeding. I thought my baby would be sleeping 12 hours and they're up looking for food, they're definitely hungry, they're definitely taking the bottle. So the thing to remember, as with breastfeeding too.... But, you know, coming back to the fact that you're not just looking at your night. You really are looking at your 24 hour period and it's getting the timings of the feeds right during the day to then get the benefit of that overnight.
Cat: [00:05:18] And also, the babies wake up for different reasons, not just hunger.
Sarah: [00:05:22] Absolutely. That is one of the most common beliefs, that a baby will only wake up because they're hungry. And no, that's not right. You know, as we do, we wake up for all sorts of different reasons. It could be that, you know, the temperatures changed, the environments changed within the room. All these things are going to adult up in the same way that they will wake a baby up as well.
Cat: [00:05:43] I think, you know, as a new parent, you're very anxious about making sure your your baby's fed. And it's natural that that's the first thing that you kind of go to, particularly in those early days where you're worrying about what weight they're putting on. You know, if you have been doing that or you are doing that, you know, that's okay. Feeding your baby is an emotional thing. However you're doing it. Breast, bottle, combination and it's hard.
Sarah: [00:06:10] It's hard both ways. You know, people assume that a bottle fed baby is going to latch onto the bottle on and feed beautifully but not all bottle fed babies do that.
Cat: [00:06:19] You know, however you feed your baby, try to ignore the noise from others who think you should be doing it. Like well-meaning folk, quite often it might be a family member, maybe a mother/ mother in law may have surprisingly firm ideas about boobs, about your boobs or bottles. And it can be really hard to sort of juggle both baby in your arms and all these opposing views. So I would love to be there to give everyone a hug but I'd also love to be there to tell any onlookers who are judging a parent for how they feed their baby. And tell them not to. That's a polite way of saying it.
Sarah: [00:07:02] Definitely.
2 – How to Give a Full Feed to Your Baby
Cat: [00:07:06] Something you say a lot. Sarah is give baby a food feed. So that's the second thing you need to know about milk and sleep. Make sure baby takes full feeds. I remember you saying all the time with both of mine. Bu to begin with I didn't really know what you meant. And for a new parent or even an experienced one, it can be really hard to know what a full feed is. So, Sarah, what is a full feet?
Sarah: [00:07:33] So basically, a full feed are really getting as much nutritional value in as possible. And that is not going to happen in one setting for bottle or breast. But first of all, when it comes to the breast, you're looking to offer your first side, so you alternate sides to your every feed. But we call it your first side. So, for example, if you were starting on the right side, you're going to offer your baby the right side. You're going to keep baby on until they naturally come off or until you see that they've stopped sucking. Now, obviously, you can't see what I'm pointing out right now but...
Cat: [00:08:09] Are you playing with your boobs?
Sarah: [00:08:11] No! I'm playing with my face. So, you're not looking at your boobs to see if your baby is feeding properly, you're looking at the baby's face. So you're looking for a lot of movement around the jaw, the ear lobe and just below the ear lobe, you're looking for that big deep suck. Once you can see that by deep suck, you're going to keep baby on that side until they either naturally stop that big deep suck or come off by themselves. And this is busting another huge myth. When that baby comes off, you are going to wind him and you're going to wind him properly.
Cat: [00:08:48] Yeah.
Sarah: [00:08:49] Once you've winded baby to a point where they're not wriggly and uncomfortable, you're going to pop them back on the same side and look for exactly the same things. And then you're going to do a third time. And then you're going to switch sides.
Cat: [00:09:03] Three sides!
Sarah: [00:09:03] Yes, you're going for three times on the first side and then your switching over. When it comes to your second side, they might only latch on once. They might not take any more than that from the second side, they might not take any at all, they may completely refuse the second side.But the other thing to be really conscious of is that, although you've offered it three times from the first side, we're not putting a timescale on that. So we're not saying we expect that baby to feed for 30 minutes of the first side or ten minutes off the first side. Some babies can get a full feed in five minutes and for others, it can take 45 minutes. So you're really looking at the movement in the jaw and the alertness in the baby.
Cat: [00:09:46] Try not to look at the clock, which is easy to do.
Sarah: [00:09:49] Absolutely.
Cat: [00:09:50] I was going to say often baby pops off if you haven't got a deep enough latch. So when you're saying they come off, that's not at the very beginning. That's when they've been having a proper suck for a bit of time.
Sarah: [00:10:03] So you'll get that lovely milk drunk appearance when they roll back in their head lolls down and you might see that dribble of milk down the side of their face. That's when you've got a nice, satisfied baby.
Cat: [00:10:17] I have to say, I'm not sure I ever really fully got that with Indy.
Sarah: [00:10:22] No, I don't think you did, actually with Indy. Your experience with Indy was a tough gig.
Cat: [00:10:29] She had tongue tie and I had a bunch of issues feeding her. But it's important, I think, to mention that when we're talking about milk drunk, because it was something that folk had said to me and I think I've never seen me do that. And it made me feel like, again, I was failing. Which I think is sort of only present feeling for parents everywhere that you feel that you're not doing it correctly. Anyway, back to the full feeds. So that's the way you get a full feed. if you're breast breastfeeding. Bottle feeding?
Sarah: [00:10:59] So bottle feeding, you're not going to make a bottle up and expect them to have it all at once. I think, as with the breast, they're going to come off. Now as a rough guide, you'd be looking at taking your baby off the bottle every 30 mls so one ounce or 30 mls and giving them a really good wind. So although they might feel and look completely sound asleep in your arms, you need to be getting them up either into a sitting positon to wind them or up over your shoulder and giving them a really thorough wind and then offering them the next 30-ish mls. And keep doing that until they've finished their feed and they might not finish the full bottle every time. We're not saying that, they definitely will. But don't be lulled into a false sense of security after 30 mls.
Cat: [00:11:43] We're going to come onto winding shortly, because that is super important and always hilarious to talk about. Other things that are important in terms of full feeds, keeping your baby a week. We touched on that last week...
Sarah: [00:11:54] Yep. So, again, you just want to be annoying them. So tickling the ribs, pressing your thumb into the palm of their hand and doing little circular motions. Tickling the toes, pulling on the ear lobe, and stripping your baby off. You know, a lot of the time I'm encouraging people to feed their babies naked because the air being around them - you don't want them to be cold...
Cat: [00:12:17] I had to do that with my son every feed at night because he was such a snoozy little thing. And whilst that is lovely, of course, you want that to happen. If I had allowed him to do that and not have a full feed, he would have been up in 20 minutes. And then none of us were getting enough sleep. So it is a hard thing because it feels like this lovely thing. Oh, they're all cozy and they're all comfy and they've had some milk and of course, they're falling asleep. But actually, you want them to take full feed to give them the best possible chance to have a proper sleep, which will help them developmentally and all those things. And also for you to get some kip, because you really have to look after yourself as a parent too, even though that goes against everything you feel because you want to put all your focus on this wee tiny thing in front of you. Looking after yourself as a parent is so important.
3 – How to Time Feeding Your Baby
Cat: [00:13:14] That brings us very neatly into timings of feeds, because that's the third thing that you need to know about sleep and milk feeds timings.
Sarah: [00:13:22] So you want to start your timings from your start of day point. So if you've decided that you be quite like to start your day around about seven o'clock in the morning, then you're looking at timing your feeds from then until bedtime. So every two and a half to four hours from seven in the morning.
Cat: [00:13:41] Depending on the age of your baby...
Sarah: [00:13:44] Absolutely. You're not going to expect a two week or three week old baby to last for hours between feeds but, equally, you would expect a six month old baby to last the four hours between feeds. So, yeah, it does vary with age. But then overnight, as long as there's no medical or weight related issues, then they don't need to be fed as regularly. So you are going to be getting them off to bed in the evening and then letting them wake up naturally. But it is important that you're aware of any issues that would prevent that happening.
Cat: [00:14:18] I mean, a lot people are going to laugh and say, 'what, starting my day at seven am! Don't be ridiculous, my baby's up at five am. And, similarly, you know, only waking for feeds during the night sounds lovely, but not necessarily what it feels like.
Sarah: [00:14:35] But I think the important thing at this stage as to distinguish between the night and day, which we did talk about last week as well. So we're just coming back to that, that if you split your 24 hours into your 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 PM, you're 7:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. and that will really help you with timings of feeds. So, yes, if your baby's been up at five o'clock in the morning, you are still going to be in start your day between 7 and 7.30am.
Cat: [00:15:04] I think often as parents, we focus particularly on nighttime sleep being as the goal, kind of aiming for, you know, sleeping through the 12 hours. But actually, you need to look at that whole 24 hour period.
Sarah: [00:15:17] It's super important that you get your feed schedule and timings right to allow baby to nap properly during the day because without proper, consistent, deep sleep naps during the day they're not going to get the sleep that they need overnight. And so you're not going to get your nights back.
Cat: [00:15:35] And have good naps they need to be having good feeds.
Sarah: [00:15:39] Absolutely. And feeds at the right times. It's key that you get your feeds at the right times to allow for the good naps.
Cat: [00:15:47] I realize we're talking about the right times, but not really being specific, other than saying every two and a half to four hours, depending on the age of your baby. But we will look at different routines in another episode.
4 – How to Wind Your Baby
Cat: [00:16:03] The fourth thing about sleep and feeding is wind. Honestly, it's a gas! So baby wind is one of the biggest reasons that babies either don't sleep or they wake up from sleep. Even the tiniest air bubble can expand and cause discomfort when a baby's laying down to sleep. Kind of makes sense, really. It might not happen every time, but because obviously they can't tell you when they have one brewing. It's always better to cover your bases and wind a baby thoroughly. Like lots of parenting things, I had no idea how important wind was when it came to babies and sleep. Sarah used to say to me, wind until your hand hurts after every single feed. So talk to me about wind.
Sarah: [00:16:46] So, yeah, wind is very infuriating and irritating, winding is very, very important. So you are doing it throught the feed and at the end of each feed. And, yes, I do say to people to wind until your hand hurts. That doesn't mean that you're slapping your baby too hard or anything it's getting that balance, though, for a lot of people winding can be quite scary. You know, it does feel like you're going to hurt your baby when you're first winding.
Cat: [00:17:18] The midwives are always much more aggressive with winding than I ever felt particularly comfortable in being. So what are the main ways you can wind your baby?
Sarah: [00:17:27] So the traditional up onto your shoulders support your baby, pat and rub their back and do you do that until you feel some movement. Feel some wind coming out. It's not always the most effective. The one that I prefer is to set with your baby, quite hard to explain, but sit with your baby on your knees. So they're sitting at the right angle. Make sure that their back is really nice and straight. So your supporting their head and face in your hand. And with the other hand, you're really, really staightening that back up and then you're rubbing and patting up and down the back at the same time as turning baby in little circles or folding and baby forwards and backwards. And that really squishes the wind in the tummy and pushes it up and dislodges it nice and quickly.
Cat: [00:18:12] In a gentle way, I always think of it like you're doing row, row, row your boat with your baby.
Sarah: [00:18:19] Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. Just supporting that baby a lot.
Cat: [00:18:24] The one I find quite useful, which is also one that you taught me and I liked to call incy wincey spider, which is where you kind of tickle up either side of their back to find if there's any wind pockets.
[00:18:39] So if you've got baby up on your shoulder, it's probably easiest doing that one up on your shoulder. So when baby's up on your shoulder start right down where the nappy is, the top of the nappy and just use two fingers and either side of baby's back and just almost tickle right up the sides here.
Cat: [00:18:56] With thumb and finger...
Sarah: [00:18:56] Yes, so you're just sort of giving them a little squeeze. You want to put a little bit of pressure on it and when you feel baby flinch, you know you've hit an air bubble. And if you just work on that area, you'll soon dislodge it.
Cat: [00:19:11] I honestly could not believe how successful that was with my son. That was the best way for for him to get his wind out. And for me to find it. It was always kind of seemed to be, you know, in a funny place.
Sarah: [00:19:24] And it can get really quite trapped in little places that you don't expect it to be. So a lot of people wouldn't think, because obviously you naturally see people winding by touching the baby's back. You wouldn't always check the sides. So that one is really good for just identifying other areas where it can be stuck.
Cat: [00:19:42] And so when I say, or when you say rather, wind until your hand hurts, it's not because you're, you know, using force. It's actually because you need to do it for a longer period of time than you would expect.
Sarah: [00:19:56] Yeah, you know, a lot of people do it for a couple of seconds and say 'Oh, I haven't got a burp'. I can take time for that burp to work its way up from the tummy to the mouth. And so you do need to keep going.
Cat: [00:20:07] And you should be doing that every time you take a break from bottle or a breastfeed.
Sarah: [00:20:14] Yeah, definitely. See you're winding three or four times every feed.
Cat: [00:20:19] Yeah. Which is way more than people would expect. And the whole basis of it is basically just in case. And a really surprising amount of parenting falls under that because, you know, they might not have any wind but the last thing you want is to lay them down and for that wind wouldn't bubble to get trapped or to move up and for that to be the reason that wakes them up from sleep.
Sarah: [00:20:40] Yeah, it's really common for that sort of settled looking baby to then wake up with a short, sharp cry twenty minutes after they'd been put into their basket or bed and that as the wind starting to get really painful.
5 – Baby Weight Gain and Signs
Cat: [00:20:57] So we've spoken about baby getting full feeds, and you can usually tell with how they sleep after feed and how generally content they are, but there are also other signs. So that's the fifth thing we want to chat about when it comes to milk and baby sleep: weight gain and signs. A topic which can be a pretty anxious one, I think, for many parents. Certainly it was for me.
Sarah: [00:21:21] I can be a worry, of course it can but there are other things to look out for as well. So, you know, consistently wet nappies, healthy looking poos, healthy skin and fontanelle being nice and round.
Cat: [00:21:37] And what's the fontanelle?
Sarah: [00:21:39] Remember that good old soft spot on the top of their head that you don't want to bump?
Cat: [00:21:43] You don't want that to be dipped?
Sarah: [00:21:45] If the fontanelle is very shallow then, you know, that can be a sign of dehydration. So you do want that to be nice and high there.
Cat: [00:21:52] Any how many wet and dirty nappies are we talking a day?
Sarah: [00:21:55] Honestly, in those first few weeks you can be looking at 8 to 12 dirty nappies and more wet nappies. It's always a lot more than people think.
Cat: [00:22:07] Okay, let's talk poo, because when you become a parent, you spend your life talking about poo. With my two and a four year old, all they want to talk about is poo... And call me poo, Mummy Poo! What should you be looking out for in terms of color and consistency? I really hope no one listening is having their tea right now!
Sarah: [00:22:27] Yeah. So, you know, the first few days you're looking for the meconium, which is really black and tar like that, then transitions to a nice and pesto nappy! And then from there, are you a graduate up to your Korma or mustard colored nappy, with breastfed babies it can generally be pretty watery. But it's got that really good Korma color. And that's what you're looking for. That's a nice healthy poo. Your sort of fluorescent green poos are the ones that you need to be aware of, that can mean that baby is slightly dehydrated, but that's not to say that you won't get the odd green poo are giving tinge to a Korma poo.
Cat: [00:23:11] And bottle fed babies?
Sarah: [00:23:12] So bottle fed babies are gonna be slightly thicker in consistency and the color will be similar. I like to refer back to a bit of a Play doughy or plasticine type nappy. That's what you're going to get to begin with a formula fed baby and they can change some sort of darker brown as well.
Your Baby Question - How To Get Baby To Take A Bottle
Cat: [00:23:34] So each week we're going to put a listener's question to our lovely Sarah. These will focus on the topic we're discussing and hopefully help them and help you. So this week, we hear from Emma...
Emma: [00:23:44] Hi Cat and Sarah. I was just wondering, I cannot get my baby to take a bottle. I've tried probably every bottle under the sun. I spent a fortune on really expensive bottles. I bought really cheap bottles. I'm sure some people say that the cheaper bottles are better. I've tried getting her to take a bottle from my husband. She wouldn't do that, from my parents, literally just wouldn't take a bottle from anybody. And she feeds constantly all night. She just snacks. She's a total snacker. And it's just really exhausting. And also, obviously, at some point I need to go back to work and I just don't know, I just can't imagine her ever taking a bottle. And I'm just wondering if you had any ideas or advice on how it is and then make a try. Or what I could do. Thank you.
Cat: [00:24:39] Oh, I feel her pain and her tiredness.
Sarah: [00:24:41] I know. Yeah. So she has done the right thing trying a few different bottles. And she's absolutely right. The cheap ones are as good as the expensive ones. But you do also one consistency, which is one of our magic words,
Cat: [00:24:58] What are the tips and tricks for helping baby to take a bottle from someone else?
Sarah: [00:25:06] I mean, these sort of hints and tips apply to both mum and other people. But I would say, you know, if possible, start the process of offering the bottle with someone else. So, you know, if you're in a position where you're the only person that can do it and that's absolutely fine but stick someone else's jumper on so that the baby can smell your milk as soon as you go near them. If you are in a position where somebody else can offer the bottle, then go for that option. Stay calm. It's really, really important to stay calm. You know, it can be so frustrating, you can be going upset you can be getting a little bit annoyed if you feel like you're getting to that point, whether it's dad, granny, auntie, uncle, next door neighbour, hand the baby back to somebody else to have a go. There's no point in persevering if you've got to the point where you're getting frustrated. And think outside the box, a lot of people assume that, you know, breastfed babies are going to take a bottle in the position that they feed in. So if you're feeding cross cradle, that's naturally the position that people offer the bottle.
Cat: [00:26:11] That's the natural image you think of a baby in your arms.
Sarah: [00:26:14] Yeah that's cross cradle.
Cat: [00:26:17] Bottles don't always work as well in that way...
Sarah: [00:26:21] No. Absolutely. Just might not work for baby and you want to try different things. So lie a pillow on your knees and face baby away from you so that their back is actually against your tummy and then the bottle is coming into the baby's mouth at a right angle. So you're putting your arm across the baby and the bottle is coming into the babies mouth that way. And be prepared to get on your feet and work your leg muscles. I have done thousands of squats in my time trying to get babies to take bottles.
Cat: [00:26:53] It's such a weird thing. When I was trying to get my son to take bottle, I found it so funny that you kind of had to do a wee dance to get a wee bit of milk on their tongue to get them into it. So it's almost like you do the work for them to encourage them to start doing the work of the suck.
Sarah: [00:27:09] Yep, absolutely. So you're triggering all the reflexes to get that suck going. And, you know, by bouncing up and down, essentially when you're doing your squats, you're relaxing baby and then they start to suck. And also you don't need to hold your baby, if you've got access to a bouncy chair or a car seat, you can use those or position them safely, sort of bolstered up with pillows as long as you know you're staying with them and make it safe and offering the bottle. Then that's fine.
Cat: [00:27:38] That works for if you're starting a bottle feeding from the outset, but also if you are transitioning from breastfeeding to bottle feeding, I guess, because it just makes it feel different for a baby as well.
Sarah: [00:27:50] Yeah, definitely. And the other thing is especially if you're transitioning from the breast to the bottle, you know, make the milk warm, a baby who's been used to cozy breast milk isn't going to take a room temperature or straight from the fridge bottle. It's not going to happen, so warm your breast milk up safely or prepare the formula at the correct temperature.
Cat: [00:28:12] I think it's also worth saying it can be hard, it can be a process. It doesn't just happen overnight. You kind of need to persevere with it over a period of time and don't be despondent if it doesn't work immediately.
Sarah: [00:28:23] And again, you know, that is coming back to the consistency. Once you've chosen your time that you are offering your bottle, be consistent with that.
Cat: [00:28:34] Thank you so much for getting in touch, was lovely to hear from you. I hope that's helped. And if you want to ask Sarah a question, send us a message on Instagram @TheSleepMums or on our website www.thesleepmums.co.uk
Cat: [00:28:44] So that's five things about baby sleep and milk feeds. Feeding is something that can cause a lot of anxiety for parents. It certainly did for me. And, in many ways, when I finally contacted Sarah when my daughter was five months old, the biggest issue with her sleep was that I was so worried about her gaining weight that I fed her every single time she made a peep. It's hard for us to cover how you might be feeling in 20 minutes. And honestly, we find it difficult to narrow the most important bits of information down to just five things. However, we hope it's helped to give you a better understanding of feeding and baby sleep, some decent tips and support to know that you're not alone in this parenting gig. Thank you for listening. Please spread the word. Tell your friends, your friends of friends; and if you like our podcast, which we really hope that you do, Sarah and I have written a book together - have I mentioned that? - it's called The Sleep Mums Read It and Sleep, and hopefully will be hitting the shelves really soon. And while I'm on the topic of plugging, it would be lovely if you gave us a wee five star review. It really makes a difference. We're on a mission to help all parents sleep better. And if you want to talk to us, find us online @TheSleepMums or on www.thesleepmums.co.uk.
Cat: [00:30:05] Catch you next week and sleep soon.